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@pillowfort there's a weird magic designing a game, where once you hit a certain critical mass then players actually give a shit about achieving the things you want them to achieve, and then you can use that to give them interesting challenges.
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@pillowfort but it's the challenges that make the rewards rewarding? it's easy to joke about "numbers go up" but why, fundamentally do we want them to? and do we care more if the numbers are called "level" rather than "spacepoints".
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@pillowfort and of course, also, once players are invested in a certain system of value, they will typically short-circuit into maximising that value efficiently rather than "having fun".
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@pillowfort but for me the real mystery is why players care about your made up value system, not why, once they do, it overrides "fun"